Which Kit/Engine?

[Hughieboy]

I'm just throwing this up for ideas if anyone would like to offer opinions....

My Series 2 currently has, I believe an SR190 type setup. I say I believe because I'm not entirely sure.... I bought it a few years ago with the engine already done, the guy I bought it from said it was 190cc and had been built and tuned by Harry Barlow at Pro Porting. I did speak to Harry once about it to get the carb jetting right and he sent me some jets although he couldn't remember the actual engine. All that I can tell you is that it has some kind of packer at the base of the cylinder ( if that gives a clue) and has a 22mm Jetex carb. It was running an Indian Big Bore pipe but I have fitted an old '80's under kickstart Fresco which has made it a bit more peppy. It apparently has Pacemaker gears and I can see that some work has definitely been done as the carb manifold has been opened out and polished to match the carb although I have never opened it up to see what else has been done.

Anyways, although it has always been super reliable and better than standard it does 55mph and that is it. Flat out, on the flat, that is all you are getting. You can ride it flat out all day with no trouble but you ain't getting any more from it!

I'm in the process of dragging some money together to sort something quicker out. Although I have no problem with doing brakes, forks, cables and all the maintenance type jobs I know my limits and I'm not into stripping and rebuilding engines. What I want to do is get a motor built that will suit what I'm after hopefully but I don't know which way to go.

Ideally, I want to be able to have a squirt about and keep up with some of the quicker scooters on ride outs etc but retain reliability as I don't want to be stripping it and rebuilding it every five minutes. Also, it would be great to be able to do a steady 65mph two up on trips etc with capability of doing 70mph plus on occasion.

I realise I'm going to have to spend a few quid but it will be worth it to make the scooter more usable in modern traffic situations and make it more fun! I only tend to have one scooter so it needs to be as versatile as possible.

I don't know whether I should be looking at getting the existing small block motor (LIS 150) kitted differently and rebuilt to suit or getting hold of big block motor so I can have a bit larger capacity kit... Or whether to go the whole hog and get a complete motor built on a new SIL 200 engine? Are the performance gains worth buying a larger engine? And then whether to go TS1,RB or Avanti etc, etc..

I find the array of kits available pretty mind boggling but as it will be a costly project and hopefully a 'keeper' I could use the benefit of any ones experience to help me make the right choice... Questions, questions!

Can anyone help me narrow it down? It would be great to work out which direction to head off in.

Thanks in advance!

[MickYork]

I like the Avanti. After nearly 3 years of "production" i think it can be claimed to be a tried and tested kit. The Avanti can cruise all day at 60+ and is very user friendly when it comes to assembling the top end.

The fact that a lot other kits are using the Avanti heads proves the desirability of the large heat dispersment you get with these kits.

[Scooterslag]

Might be worth having a bit more work done on your existing engine, maybe a change of sprockets and better carb/pipe combination might release some more performance? quite a few people have tweaked their SR kits with good results and will save you a arm and a leg forking out for a new engine/kit etc. Paul

[Mel K]

Might be worth having a bit more work done on your existing engine, maybe a change of sprockets and better carb/pipe combination might release some more performance? quite a few people have tweaked their SR kits with good results and will save you a arm and a leg forking out for a new engine/kit etc. Paul

This is very good advice, good carb and pipe , ones that will perform well on a big block kit if it's still not what you want , it will save you thousands ! If it ain't broke don't fix it, but you can tweek it ; )

[Hughieboy]

Might be worth having a bit more work done on your existing engine, maybe a change of sprockets and better carb/pipe combination might release some more performance? quite a few people have tweaked their SR kits with good results and will save you a arm and a leg forking out for a new engine/kit etc. Paul

This is very good advice, good carb and pipe , ones that will perform well on a big block kit if it's still not what you want , it will save you thousands ! If it ain't broke don't fix it, but you can tweek it ; )

Thanks everyone,

I like what I read about both the Avanti and the GT kits but would obviously need to source a 200 engine....

Changing exhaust/carb/sprockets on my existing..... Any ideas on what I should try or where I should go with it? Would this be likely to give me the kind of substantial performance gains I'm looking for? I guess I would be best to take it in somewhere, any recommendations on who might be best to speak to within reasonable travelling distance of Oxford?

Or I could try and do it myself if I knew what to get

[MickYork]

I'ld be inclined to get your casings adapted to take a 200 stud pattern. The benefits are obvious (no substitute for size !!) with the added bonus of the casings being matched to any base gasket so your kit will be matched to the casings for you at very little extra cost.

[davla]

I'ld be inclined to get your casings adapted to take a 200 stud pattern. The benefits are obvious (no substitute for size !!) with the added bonus of the casings being matched to any base gasket so your kit will be matched to the casings for you at very little extra cost.

I never see the point of this, you can get a GP200 block for £265-£290. Ok, so it's more expensive than getting a small block conversion but without stating the obvious, you've now got two blocks..... and the 200cc casing is always going to retain it's value.

[MickYork]

Fair enough. Each to their own.

[Hughieboy]

Thanks for all the ideas fellas....

But getting back to where to go and hopefully keeping things reasonably simple as I ain't that technical engine wise.... Would I be better to put a small block kit on what I have or sell it as a mildly tuned but very reliable motor and then buy a 200 engine either done or not and have that rebuilt? I really don't want to go down the route of stripping things and having casings altered etc.. As engine rebuilding isn't really my thing, I was thinking I would get it done by someone who knows what they're at in the interests of reliability. At the grand old age of 45 I have never yet had a quick reliable motor.... Always reliable but never that quick! Time for the Lambretta engine I always wanted now

It would be great to improve what I have but I don't really want to mess about for an extra 5 mph if the end result is that I need to just go bigger.... In which case there's no point messing up the engine I have as it's a cracker if you don't mind doing 55mph! Might as well start again and sell it on as it is maybe?

Just leaves the question of which kit and who to go to for the build I guess.... I think I'm liking the idea of the GT or the Avanti from what I read.....

[MickYork]

Whereabouts are you?

Plenty of builders up and down the country.

[Hughieboy]

Whereabouts are you?

Plenty of builders up and down the country.

I'm just outside Bicester, near Oxford.... Not sure who the best place to speak to near here is. Distance isn't a problem though, maybe I should just have a ring around. I was just trying to get a feel for different set ups before ringing places so I had a rough idea where I wanted to go with it...

Thanks.

[Adam_Winstone]

Banbury, Oxford and Thame all have very active scooter clubs that you could chat to

Adam (Oxford Roadrunners SC)

[Hughieboy]

Banbury, Oxford and Thame all have very active scooter clubs that you could chat to

Adam (Oxford Roadrunners SC)

Thanks Adam. I know a lot of the Red Kites and most of my lot are from Aylesbury so there are people I know locally. I asked the question on here for a ideas as I don't don't get out and about to club meetings much due to other commitments at weekends to speak to people one to one....

So I was just looking for opinions on what others might consider the best way to go

[mainstand]

I'd get a GT186 kit on a small block personally. Everyone I know who runs one has done 1000's of miles faultlessy. (well the kits have been faultless)

[Hughieboy]

I'd get a GT186 kit on a small block personally. Everyone I know who runs one has done 1000's of miles faultlessy. (well the kits have been faultless)

What kind of cruising speed can you expect from one of those? With the right gearing, pipe, carb etc...?

[Hughieboy]

watch this to find out, give it a few mins...

Nice one!

[Scooterslag]

impressive stuff indeed, 75mph two up on a chunky series 2

[Hughieboy]

I think that would do for me! I wonder what the extra gains are for getting hold of a 200 lump and going the big block route.... Would be interesting to know if it's worth spending the extra or just go with the 186....

[Hughieboy]

this is video of a mildly tuned 230 version of the big block in the camera scooter

That looks superb! Thanks for the footage.

I've emailed Granturismo for a bit more info, just need to work out whether to rebuild mine as a 186 or acquire a 200 engine and go for the bigger one.... Need to work out cost difference vs performance differenc but It will definitely be one of them

I couldn't see your speedo but I'm guessing you must have been doing 70 odd? That'd do for me

[STREETSLEEPER]

What did you decide in the end? I'm interested because I too have a Series 2. Don't you find the extra weight is just so noticeable when compared to S3 scoots? There is one wonderful thing about them though, and that's the extra attention they get. A bus driver pulled up beside me at a junction (not a bus-stop) the other day, and he opened his doors just to shout down to me "What year is your scooter mate?" Whenever I tell people it was built in 1960 they're always impressed to see someone still running around on such an old vehicle "OUT OF CHOICE!" And when they see Lambrettas like the one in Eden's video overtaking them they often seem to do a cartoon double-take!!
And with regard to the videos Scooterslag had this to say " impressive stuff indeed, 75mph two up on a chunky series 2." I couldn't agree more.
Keeping up with and passing traffic on today's roads is what modern kits are all about. After having spent years riding full-throttle but with my fingers hovering over the clutch I know how Eden felt on his GP, first trying to keep up, and then nipping up! -
We're a couple of months further down the road now so I wondered if you've started on your project, and if you have, what did you decide on in the end?