which kit to use?

[peejay]

hi peeps
a club mate has just bought a series 2 Li150.
he's gonna completely rebuild the motor and put a new top end on it, but which one?

his brief is:

100 mile max in a day, two up riding at all times, cruising at 50mph (probably as fast as he will ride it), clubman exhaust.

your suggestions please

[MickYork]

Personally i'd send the bare engine away and get it adapted to take the 200 stud spacing's, then go for a large bore kit........"there's no substitute for size" as they say.

A standard 200 top end would be close to the spec' your after, will probably work out cheaper than a kitted small block.

[peejay]

thanks for that Mick, thinking slightly outside the box but it makes sense to me, all suggestions will be passed on.

[Scooter Paul]

Personally i'd send the bare engine away and get it adapted to take the 200 stud spacing's, then go for a large bore kit........"there's no substitute for size" as they say.

A standard 200 top end would be close to the spec' your after, will probably work out cheaper than a kitted small block.

A good call.

[mainstand]

Another option. Cheapo 200 conversion then get it tuned & tidied up. Had one on my series 2 & it went very well.

http://www.gjrscooterservices.co.uk/Cylinder%20Kit.htm

[Toddy]

What he wants is a question but whats his Budget ??

[Toddy]

Budget? Whats one of them?

It's in the manhole

[Mr G in NYC]

GT186.& 25mmPHBH . I'm just about to fit one to a SX150 I have Some summer run in fun
on the horizon G.

[peejay]

whats his Budget ??

good question Toddy
talking to him briefly a couple of days ago he said he'd been looking at kits at £400 ish (nothing specific), crank, carb, clubman, 12v electronic for starters so that's a grand without even thinking about it.

[Marty ULC]

The mugello 186 is a nice kit.

[mickyb]

GT 186 kit the way to go,

[Donnie]

GT186 definitely, id never buy another muggy

[peejay]

thanks for replies guys.
i've actually seen the scoot today with my clubmate who is tasked with rebuilding it. it's got a kit on it already!!

probably 185 ish, 28 delli, AF bigbore, no throttle cable or air filter. with mate kicking it and me working the throttle we have it running, sounds pretty sweet and very quiet.
i'll keep you posted on progress as it will now get a thorough check over

[peejay]

hi peeps
this motor has been stripped down today by my mate.
it's a very late Moggie kit with the stepped head with no gasket and 7 point fixing.
bore size is 66mm.
when it first arrived i tried starting it with no success, i'm 9 1/2 stone and the pedal barely moved!
i was thinking that the compression must be far too high to get this symptom.
at this time i don't know what the squish clearance is, any idea what it should be?
it's fitted with a 28mm PHBH carb and ram air filter, could anyone suggest starting point for correct jetting?
any assistance appreciated

PeeJay

[Adam_Winstone]

Anyone checked the compression? If the motor is stripped then this would be a good time to look at the head and measure its volume so that you know what you're up against.

As the PHBH range is the commonly supplied by Cambridge Lambretta for use on the Mugellos I would think that their website would be the best place to look for jetting suggestions.

Adam

[Adam_Winstone]

Advance retard ignition or not? Do note that some of the Cambridge details seem a little rich lower down, which may well be influenced by the fact that they regularly set them up with Varitronics.

[mickyb]

Just a thought, if it was running ok before it was stripped why change anything just check compression and squish and set it up properly

[peejay]

thanks for that Adam

top end is now off, squish is .9 -.95mm with a .4mm base gasket.

we don't have the technology to do a compression test at this time but it's a standard head for the kit so we intend to increase base gasket thickness to increase the squish to nearer 1.5mm and give it a go.

looking at the CamLam site they don't reccommend the 28 PHBH for the 198 kit and don't give any set up ideas.

[peejay]

Just a thought, if it was running ok before it was stripped why change anything just check compression and squish and set it up properly

hi Mike
the scoot was bought on Fleabay as a non runner with no history at all. it's now done a few hundred yds but the compression was so high we thought it best to strip it down.

[Adam_Winstone]

Peejay, not the most accurate but you can get a good idea of head volume by putting the plug in and then filling the combustion chamber (roughly level with the edge of where chamber meets squish band) with water from a syringe and note how many ml/cc it takes. You can then work out what the squish volume will be if you assemble to 1.5mm and then calculate the geometric CR and corrected if you take a few barrel measurements... or you measure the volume and someone else might do the calcs for you Obviously, you can work out comp ratio any time you like, providing you measure the combustion chamber volume.

One reason for doing the above is that there have been lots of different spec' Mugellos over the years, with different porting and different heads/comp ratios, and some suppliers even supply them with their own machined heads. An early head on a late barrel, or t'other way, can cause issue.

Starting point for jetting should probably be the common AV266, X7 needle (T2 clip position [2nd down from top), 122 main jet, 40 slide, 50 pilot... but this must be subject to testing (choke tests will give instant feedback) and adjustment. Do note that, just as with the threads currently running on iron vs alloy kits, a Mugello will be TOO forgiving if you get the jetting and/or timing (16 - 17 static as a starting point with high comp head) wrong as it'll keep running until it burns a hole in the piston, whereas an iron barrel will give you a big warning sign (nip up) well before it self destructs! Mugellos are so forgiving that they'll run until they pop!

However, get a Muggy set up well and it'll give excellent service, both in respect to performance and reliability.

Best of luck,

Adam

PS - Do take note of Cambridge's gearing recommendations as later Muggys like to rev and will not perform too well if you try to gear it for low rev work.

PPS - I like to run 28s on AV264 and X13 combo... BUT... start rich and work from there, hence the AV266 and X7 suggestion. Some Muggys may run AV268 X7 if using auto advance retard. All jetting will also be influenced greatly by pipe choice (don't remember reading this). A standard AF/KBM (or whatever they are) will cut the revs short of where later Muggys want to work efficiently, which is why the Ancillotti clubman revs higher.