LCGB Forums

So if you had no engine and fancied riding all the way to Italy next year, with no back up van following you, what engine would you build ?

You have a decent smallblock engine case but would buy a 200 uni case if you felt you had to

You have to actually pay for it with your own money , your lotto numbers have not come up yet and Elon isn't answering your texts

The engine has to be as good at slow speeds as well as faster speeds

Spares have to be easily available for anything you choose

It has to be reliable

It’s going in a series 3 Li

So what would YOU build to meet this criteria ?

My standard GT240 with TSR evo didn’t miss a beat on the way to Austria
But was a bit thirsty in France - 8 miles to the litre but 10 miles to the litre on the motorway

If it ever blew up I’d probably replace it with a large RT kit

Also if your riding in a group I’d consider what kits they are using
Sharing spares means less to carry . 3 out of our 6 riders had Rt235s
At every stop they put in less fuel than I did

Having said that I’ll probably go on my GT186 next year. It’s made it to Italy before no problem

When you say spares have to be readily available, do you mean components you can purchase en route or spares you can easily buy before you go?
I’ve been running an RB 22 for 19 years and have ridden it to at least 10 euro rally’s as well as many events / rally’s at home. Have never had a back up van with us. It’s been utterly reliable and any problems have been fixed at the side of the road. It meets all your criteria and then some.
But, would I build one today? Probably not!
There is so much more available these days we’re spoilt for choice; in a good way!

Covboy wrote:My standard GT240 with TSR evo didn’t miss a beat on the way to Austria
But was a bit thirsty in France - 8 miles to the litre but 10 miles to the litre on the motorway

If it ever blew up I’d probably replace it with a large RT kit

Also if your riding in a group I’d consider what kits they are using
Sharing spares means less to carry . 3 out of our 6 riders had Rt235s
At every stop they put in less fuel than I did

Having said that I’ll probably go on my GT186 next year. It’s made it to Italy before no problem

Thanks for the reply

RT235 ? - does that use a 61mm stroke then ?

Covboy wrote:My standard GT240 with TSR evo didn’t miss a beat on the way to Austria
But was a bit thirsty in France - 8 miles to the litre but 10 miles to the litre on the motorway

If it ever blew up I’d probably replace it with a large RT kit

Also if your riding in a group I’d consider what kits they are using
Sharing spares means less to carry . 3 out of our 6 riders had Rt235s
At every stop they put in less fuel than I did

Having said that I’ll probably go on my GT186 next year. It’s made it to Italy before no problem

Interesting that you mention the Gt186 , that kit is on my ‘maybe’ list

The GT186 has got me to the Euros in Davos and Adria, and others. With an MB/bgm Clubman and a PHBH30, it pulls from low revs and will cruise at 60 plus with plenty of luggage on board. The GT186 was a joy to ride. I had it many years and miss it now. I never fitted an expansion pipe to mine but I did try a Ron Moss Avanti. I found that pipe better suited to the TS1 I had at the time. The MB/bgm Clubman was better suited to the GT186.

I never had a reed petal fail on mine, perhaps as I didn’t fit a high revving expansion. But do carry spares and Allen keys cut down to so has you can get access to the reed block without dropping the engine.

Spare pistons are pretty cheap and it is cast iron so a seizure wouldn’t necessarily be terminal.

The GT186 has a unique, or at least untypical, exhaust flange design. It stands proud to, I believe, allow better cooling. But, if you crack the exhaust uBend on a kerb for example, the sacrificial part is the exhaust flange and not the uBend. This happened to me in Italy in 2017.

That said, I’d still recommend the cast iron GT186 rather than lashing out in a new casing or using a nicasil lined barrel like a Casa or RT. I have a CST Stage 4 tuned 200 now with the same carb and exhaust. It probably beats the GT186 for top speed but it isn’t as torquey low down in the rev range.

RT195 piston ported. 60 x110 crank, 30mm & vape ignition for my sx150
top end has done Adria, Libramont , Ayr & Ort inn Kries

Cant fault it, quick enough, torquey enough on a 5.00 final drive and around 12 miles per litre ,

You'll blow a gasket over thinking this one & I'm the worst at procrastination...or am I?
My 2 cents is a piston ported RT195 or why not have your original 150cc barrel (assuming you have it) rebored to 175?
The options are endless but reading what you've put above, I'd try to keep it fairly tame for a long distance Euro.

Another vote for RT 195, 60/110.

Nudger wrote:You'll blow a gasket over thinking this one & I'm the worst at procrastination...or am I?
My 2 cents is a piston ported RT195 or why not have your original 150cc barrel (assuming you have it) rebored to 175?
The options are endless but reading what you've put above, I'd try to keep it fairly tame for a long distance Euro.

Over thinking sadly is what I do best

I will be keeping it tame thats for sure , I don’t need loads more power than I have now I think

Thanks for the input

Nigel. S wrote:Another vote for RT 195, 60/110.

An RT is almost certainly the easiest option - I have not ruled that out yet

lozmondo wrote:RT195 piston ported. 60 x110 crank, 30mm & vape ignition for my sx150
top end has done Adria, Libramont , Ayr & Ort inn Kries

Cant fault it, quick enough, torquey enough on a 5.00 final drive and around 12 miles per litre ,

Thanks - especially for the consumption feedback , useful to know

Storkfoot wrote:The GT186 has got me to the Euros in Davos and Adria, and others. With an MB/bgm Clubman and a PHBH30, it pulls from low revs and will cruise at 60 plus with plenty of luggage on board. The GT186 was a joy to ride. I had it many years and miss it now. I never fitted an expansion pipe to mine but I did try a Ron Moss Avanti. I found that pipe better suited to the TS1 I had at the time. The MB/bgm Clubman was better suited to the GT186.

I never had a reed petal fail on mine, perhaps as I didn’t fit a high revving expansion. But do carry spares and Allen keys cut down to so has you can get access to the reed block without dropping the engine.

Spare pistons are pretty cheap and it is cast iron so a seizure wouldn’t necessarily be terminal.

The GT186 has a unique, or at least untypical, exhaust flange design. It stands proud to, I believe, allow better cooling. But, if you crack the exhaust uBend on a kerb for example, the sacrificial part is the exhaust flange and not the uBend. This happened to me in Italy in 2017.

That said, I’d still recommend the cast iron GT186 rather than lashing out in a new casing or using a nicasil lined barrel like a Casa or RT. I have a CST Stage 4 tuned 200 now with the same carb and exhaust. It probably beats the GT186 for top speed but it isn’t as torquey low down in the rev range.

Right now the Gt186 is probably at the top of my list - in a low powered configuration , i am thinking

GT186
60/110
25phbl through a big bore bgm airbox
And probably a Scootopia clubman
Li 150 gearbox , maybe even on 5.2 as its hilly here

Nothing clever

I don't mean this flippantly, but in my opinion you can use any engine you want as long as
It's tested and reliable
Can meet your expectations and match your riding style
Fits with the group you're travelling with

Take this year's euro as an example, our group all rode 225s, we mostly travelled on smaller roads and were generally sat at 50-55
When we had to use motorways we could sit at 65 and overtake as necessary. So it suited us.
On the same ferry going and back was a fella and his wife two up on a model d.
They rode on their own, made it there and back in the same time we did and probably never managed more than 45.

If you have enough time you can go anywhere you like on your Lambretta. But if your plan is Italy and back in 6 days you need
an engine that is capable of higher speeds for longer periods.if you've got two weeks 150 miles a day is doable on any engine.

steveg wrote:I don't mean this flippantly, but in my opinion you can use any engine you want as long as
It's tested and reliable
Can meet your expectations and match your riding style
Fits with the group you're travelling with

Take this year's euro as an example, our group all rode 225s, we mostly travelled on smaller roads and were generally sat at 50-55
When we had to use motorways we could sit at 65 and overtake as necessary. So it suited us.
On the same ferry going and back was a fella and his wife two up on a model d.
They rode on their own, made it there and back in the same time we did and probably never managed more than 45.

If you have enough time you can go anywhere you like on your Lambretta. But if your plan is Italy and back in 6 days you need
an engine that is capable of higher speeds for longer periods.if you've got two weeks 150 miles a day is doable on any engine.

Great reply Steve

My French pal Vincent Mercier has just ridden from the South of France to Caen, then Portsmouth to Liverpool and over to the IoM rally, running a standard S3 TV175 motor. His travelling partner Richard (also a pal of mine) joined him at Chartres for the trip, with Richard running a Jet200 motor that has SIL factory IV at the top end. Their combination of reliability, reasonable touring speed and extended fuel economy (standard carbs) meant that they could cover impressive daily mileage, without the expense that kits and big carbs result in.

If you're planning on touring between 50 and 65mph then you might want to consider the standard, or near standard, approach.

Adam

Thanks for all the replies - very interesting and all valid points.

I have decided on my build and it is nothing exciting at all , and thats probably the point.
This choice isn’t maybe my first choice in a lot of ways but taking into account all my deliberations of known reliability , ease of exhaust fitment, re useable gaskets if I need to get inside out in the wild, decent fuel consumption , wanting to have a filter and get it under s3 Li panels etc etc etc.

Anyway this is my boring solution

RT195 , 60x110 crank ( as well as the obvious extra few cc this allows me a thickish packer and head gasket that can be reused if i’m careful )
BGM v4 clubman - this might not have been my first choice for power delivery but its easy to fit and refit and sensible money ( its all just normal steel so can easily be welded up anywhere by anyone in the wild )
25 phbl , through a BGM airhose then a BGM (big bore) airbox , possibly a paper filter in it though rather than the bgm stainless thing ?
Li 150 gearbox on low gearing , maybe even 5.2 on the 15/46

I will be setting squish at round 1.4mm

Like I said - all a bit dull really

Nothing dull about riding to Italy and back without breaking down...

I would imagine that most of us are aware that head gaskets can be sourced in better materials these days but - unless they would be to fit a stepped spigot - I would never use one as IMO they are a weak link.

However, Good Luck with the trip

rt230 with well built clubman (not one the internals will come loose and block it)

learnt from Austria you want engine parts that are readily available to replace along with good mpg

wouldnt use a certain cassette clutch and risk lugs breaking

carb? maybe 30mm phbh