LCGB Forums

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:02 am**

Does anyone know where I can get a set of original size frame stamps ?
I've got a GP that used to have really clear numbers,but after a few blasts and
re-paints the numbers have become pretty faint and although you can see them
really clearly when blasted, the last time it was painted they all but disappeared.
I am due to repaint the frame and want to re-stamp some depth back into
them as I would like them to be easily made out.
I don't want to mask and clear coat them and I also don't want to try and engrave
them as they will end up looking like they've been tampered with.

I know this should probably be in Anorak's Corner.

Cheers in advance Mark

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:32 pm**

Mark, you are opening up a can of worms here and technically this is illegal even though you are not altering the numbers, just re-stamping them. It could give you massive problems if you tried to sell the bike as there would be signs of tampering with the number as you would never get it perfect. I certainly would not Date a frame that has signs of overstamping.

Rich'

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:25 pm**

Hey Wurzel.

I agree with Rich Oswald.

I’m sure he won’t object to me adding a little further information.

If you think about this ‘in reverse’ & the need for any verification that something is genuine, the resources available include the use of X-rays in Motor Vehicle Identification.
These will detect not only re-stampings, but the welds where a portion of an original frame spine has been grafted into a donor frame.

So, if nothing else, in your case, that technology can be used to verify your frame is bona-fide.

Relax!

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:37 pm**

Looks like it's going to be a masking off job and a light coat of colour.
The frame is British registered from new with the logbook in my name
for at least the last ten years that I can recall. The problem I have had
from the last time it was painted was making out the frame numbers for
MOTs. On a couple of occasions the lad who normally tests it has been
away and with the numbers being pretty much indecipherable under the
paint the testers have been funny about testing it and asked for the paint
to be removed so the number was visible

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:52 pm**

I feel sure that those in the know might confirm this, or otherwise, but I believe that the MOT procedure cannot enforce the removal of the panels, not even for VIN verification. :?:

Obviously, you are trying really hard to be co-operative to the tester, so there should be no concern if you explain your dilemma, just as you have on this Forum.

They are unlikely to take issue with you & a copy of the number & any previous MOT certificates &/or log books/equivalent are all going to add to your integrity.

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:48 am**

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:I feel sure that those in the know might confirm this, or otherwise, but I believe that the MOT procedure cannot enforce the removal of the panels, not even for VIN verification.

Obviously, you are trying really hard to be co-operative to the tester, so there should be no concern if you explain your dilemma, just as you have on this Forum.

They are unlikely to take issue with you & a copy of the number & any previous MOT certificates &/or log books/equivalent are all going to add to your integrity.

You would need to remove a panel, if fitted, on most Lambretta's to verify the frame number if you are getting an MOT as part of the registration process.

I've a Serveta LIS 150 with it on the right-hand legshield strut.

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:58 am**

by Digger » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:48 am

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:
I feel sure that those in the know might confirm this, or otherwise, but I believe that the MOT procedure cannot enforce the removal of the panels, not even for VIN verification.

Obviously, you are trying really hard to be co-operative to the tester, so there should be no concern if you explain your dilemma, just as you have on this Forum.

They are unlikely to take issue with you & a copy of the number & any previous MOT certificates &/or log books/equivalent are all going to add to your integrity.

You would need to remove a panel, if fitted, on most Lambretta's to verify the frame number if you are getting an MOT as part of the registration process.

I've a Serveta LIS 150 with it on the right-hand legshield strut.

Hey Digger.

I’m sure you are right for that initial proof as part of the registration, but, thereafter I’ve been told more than once that it is not mandatory.

Could be another myth though

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:05 am**

I agree Mark.

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:50 pm**

stamps can be bought off ebay.
there were some for sale a few months ago

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:55 pm**

Take your scoot to a bike friendly testing station. Ive never been asked to remove my panels.
If in doubt read the actual requirements, and quote them back to the tester.
For example my seat wobbles like crazy and doesn't have a lock - the tester was going to fail it, until I reminded him the actual requirement was for the seat to be "secure" and as such I challenged him to remove it without the use of spanners. He couldn't so the seat was deemed to be secure under suffrance!

Posted: **Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:41 am**

My Indian GP frame number is almost indecipherable but I use the same place for my M.O.T every year and they just take the number from the previous year's certificate without any problem.

I once took it to another place and after looking at the frame he just put something like "frame number illegible" on the certificate and went ahead as normal.

Posted: **Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:20 pm**

There’s been some varying comments based upon the original Post “FRAME NUMBERS” but anybody should be extremely cautious in considering tampering with the original numbers of these scaffold tubes, even if the reasons appear well founded.

I was tempted years ago by the prospect of swapping my cut down TV200 frame for a GP full frame with extras, but the intended buyer told me he intended to graft the TV’s number into a donor frame & there’s not a lot of difference in my mind between a ‘Conning Scumbag’ & a ‘Thieving Scumbag’

Posted: **Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:34 pm**

I took an imported Indian GP to a DVLA testing station. The numbers stamped into the frame were unclear so I had an engraver, engrave a 5mm piece of metal with numbers and letters twice the size of the normal ones. I then popped riveted over the original frame number. Passed with flying colours and didn't have to give any explanation.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:08 pm**

Does anyone know if these are legal? Seems like a good idea for numbers that were unclear. I just thought that it would be classed as tampered with?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-LAMBRETTA- ... SwiCRUl80I

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:24 am**

I've got stamps and have stamped blank engine casings but would NEVER consider attempting to "freshen up" an existing frame number. I have seen some strange stampings in time. Once tampered with then that's the value gone. Personally I would strip the paint at that point, make it look pleasing to the eye and then lacquer it.

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:46 am**

I remember reading that one of the Indian Lambretta models used a vin plate apposed to stamping the frame, I think is was a API lammy.
Cheers
Sag

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:03 am**

Silent "t"

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:17 am**

Hi Chris,
Silent "t". Not sure what this means.
Stag

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 am**

apparently UK dealers were issued with a set of frame stamps from Innocenti. A set turned up on ebay about 6 weeks ago. I didn't see what they sold for.
The odds are that many frames were restamped or overstamped back in the 60s and 70s for one reason or another.
So the answer is yes they do exist but they are likely to cost more than a replacement frame :lol:

You could try phoning around some of the older scooter shops see if they have a set of stamps .

You can buy punch sets but they will probably not match the font style .Do a search for 'number punch kits' top of the list is RS Components who have lots of sets

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:58 am**

I get my scooters MOT'd at the same MOT station year after year, probably because they know me and know my scooters that they just ask me to bring the last year's MOT certificate or V5 and use the frame number from those. But if it's an unknown scooter to them they do visually check the frame number.

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